The Winchester did admirably with lions, giraffes, elands, and smaller game, and, as will be seen, with hippos. For heavy game like rhinoceroses and buffaloes, I found that for me personally, the heavy Holland was unquestionably the proper weapon. The old Trapdoor rifles are restricted to a lower pressure level than are the modern, strongly-built lever guns like the Marlin Model 1895 and Winchester Model 1886; though the case may be thin, it can generate impressive numbers in a modern gun. Hard Cast bullets. GARY REEDER'S GNR CARTRIDGES - A Complete Reloading Manual here are the current cartridges.. first the ones based on the 405 case.. 257 GNR 277 GNR 280 GNR 310 GNR 8mm GNR 338 GNR 350 GNR 366 GNR 378 GNR Next cartridges based on the 30-30 case 221 Falcon 241 Falcon 256 Falcon 6.5 GNR 7 GNR 30 GNR 300 GNR 9.3 vs 405 Win [Re: Metalguy] # 148743 - 24/12/09 11:06 AM : Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply I run 600 rounds between cleanings . Roosevelt felt the .405 was a fine lion cartridge, but he and his son Kermit also used it to take rhinos and even elephants. Winchester Unprimed Brass Cases 40 Smith & Wesson 100/Bag Md: WSC40SWU Winchester Unprimed Shell Cases Are engineered To Precise Tolerances To Ensure Smooth Feeding And Positive chambering. Calling and shooting predators is one of the things that helps hunters get from the end of the fall seasons to when the turkeys start gobbling. I saw one such example on the internet commanding a price tag approaching $4,000, although any original-manufacture 1895 is going to be expensive. Truth be told, most African Professional Hunters would agree with his assessment of the cartridge today: its great for hunting many animals, but there are many better choices for thick-skinned dangerous game than the .405 Winchester. Formally known as the .45-70-405relating caliber-powder charge-bullet weight specificationsthe cartridge was commercially known as the .45-70 Government, and that 405-grain lead bullet travelled at a muzzle velocity of just about 1400 fps, though a heavier 500-grain bullet was soon employed. The lever works smoothly, and the rifle comes back on target reasonably quickly thanks to its eight-pound weightwhich isnt a bad field-carrying load at all. With the 24 barrel the 265 grain 444 Marlin drops about 3.5 at 200 yards. Gunz | Henry However, while Roosevelt was very pleased overall with the performance of the the .405 Winchester in Africa, and did take several species of thick skinned game like hippo and rhino with it, he also noted some of the limitations of the cartridge as well (p141): The Winchester and the Springfield were the weapons one of which I always carried in my own hand, and for any ordinary game I much preferred them to any other rifles. Even with todays new generation of premium bullets in most calibers, the Noslers still do the job and do it better than most. Chamberings Offered. Naturally, the 300 grain Hornady bullets can handle most American game. Tips, techniques, and equipment are applied to these classroom discussions on how to become more proficient and successful at making long-range shots while hunting with AR-platform rifles. But a proven cartridge just as the .444. I did manage to generate some good groups from the bench with the iron sights, albeit at 50 yards. But trajectory is just a number. In 1904, it debuted on the Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle. Mag..30-06 Springfield vs. .270 Winchester6.5 Creedmoor vs. 7mm-08 Remington8x57 Mauser vs. .318 Westley Richards.358 Winchester vs. .350 Remington Magnum.22-250 Remington vs. .220 Swift.270 Winchester vs. .270 WSM.26 Nosler vs. 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum.458 Win. If looking to acquire an automated powder-charge dispensing unit to speed up precision reloading, don't judge the RCBS ChargeMaster Lite powder scale and dispenser by its name; the Little Green machine packs a heavy-weight punch with speed and accuracy. .405 Winchester.416 Barrett.416 Remington Magnum.416 Rigby.416 Ruger.416 Weatherby Magnum.44-40 Winchester.444 Marlin.45-70 Government.450 Bushmaster That translates to 3,225 ft.-lbs. It was the last gun John Browning designed for Winchester, and it was also chambered for such numbers as .30-03 (forerunner to the .30-06), .303 British, .30-40 Krag, .30-06, .35 Winchester Center Fire, .38-72 WCF and .40-72 WCF. Don't Buy. The .444 Marlin Ammo has an extremely long effective range for hunting medium to large-sized games. After its introduction, the 1895 rifle and .405 Winchester cartridge quickly became very popular among American hunters. Unfortunately, Winchester made a number of modifications to the iconic Model 70 rifle in 1964 to make it cheaper and easier to manufacture. When I was a kid, there were three reasons I wanted a lever action rifle. 6.5mm (.264 dia.) It is a slightly tapered case going from .470" at the base to .453" at the case mouth, while the 1.285" long .44 Magnum is a straight case of .456" diameter. But it is no 405. Heavier bullets are available; they can run as heavy as 335 grains, though the 265- and 280-grain remain the most popular. Recoil? From the 16" barrel of the author's Bushmaster AR, factory .450 Bushmaster loads produced between 2,455 and 2,686 ft.-lbs. Imagine my surprise when in the late 1970s I shot a 200 lb mule deer quartering away from me behind the back ribs toward the off side shoulder. figuring I would have a lengthy tracking job, but wanted the meat. Until the advent of the .444 Marlin it was the most powerful cartridge ever chambered in a lever-action rifle. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Remington Model 700 American Hunter Rifle Project, Gov. Both are suitable for nearly any big-game animal, save the African dangerous heavyweights, and both have fervent, passionate followers. The .444 Marlin (10.957mmR) is a rifle cartridge designed in 1964 by Marlin Firearms and Remington Arms.It was designed to fill in a gap left by the older .45-70 when that cartridge was not available in any new lever-action rifles; at the time it was the largest lever-action cartridge available. Best Winchester. Your choice of sites is up to you, but if shots are 100 yards or less the red dot is a good choice. 444 Marlin Ammo I also shot the rifle from unsupported sitting at 100 yards and would have all the confidence in the world I could hit a six-inch vital zone every time. Accurately shooting 355 gr and 405 gr Beartooth GCHC at 1,950 fps and 1,790 fps. Lets look at the similarities, differences and applications of each. to commemorate Roosevelts safari. The anomaly of the 444 came along when Winchester chambered their Big Bore 94 action for the round. The first mention of the 1895 rifle was in the Winchester Repeating Arms 1896 catalog. Hornadys current load throws a 300-grain pointed softpoint bullet at 2,200 fps out of this rifle, and for once the chronograph figures I got exactly matched the book specs. Hornady 52 Grain BTHP Match Bullets) Winchester 94AE 444 Marlin caliber rifle. Lee states with 57 grains under the 200 grain jacketed bullet and 41300 cup the velocity is 2730 fps. Similarly, energy levels plummet. are more powerful. I have never had a problem getting excellent accuracy out of heavy bullets. and one of my favorites has been a 280+ grain cast bullet. cartridge came about in 1904, chambered in the Winchester Model 1895 rifle. Learn More . Just be mindful that when shopping for sights youll see references to 1895 that refer to Marlin and not Winchester. $405.67. and LeverEvolution .450 Marlin (3,572 ft.-lbs.) .405 Winchester.408 CheyTac.416 Remington Magnum.416 Rigby.416 Ruger.43 Spanish.444 Marlin.44-40 WCF.44-77 Sharps.45 Raptor.450 Bushmaster.450 Marlin . If it achieves that, zeroed at 100 yards, the bullet will drop about 8 inches at 200 yards, 30 inches at 300 and 6 feet at 400. The buttstock has a straight grip and a shotgun-style steel buttplate. 5 Mk 1 Rifle: History of the 'Jungle Carbine'. However, this was a special high velocity loading using a very light bullet which gave poor penetration in big heavy boned animals due to its poor sectional density. Thus, the .375 Winchester chambered lever-action Marlin Model 375 simply must make . It can be understood when we realize most gun writers dont do much with While Roosevelt did have great success hunting a variety of African large game creatures using a Winchester Model 1895 rifle chambered in.405 Winchester, the story of the cartridge is much more than Roosevelt's adventure. The .405 also outdoes Hornadys 265-grain LeverEvolution load in the .444 Marlin at 3,180 ft.-lbs., but the .444 Marlin Superformance (3,389 ft.-lbs.) [4] Catalog listings of the cartridge ceased in 1955. PS- I didnt look at the date of your article but I suspect it pre-dates Hornadys introduction of .405 ammunition. The .243 Winchester bullet has a balistic coefficient of 0.405 while .444 Marlin bullets have a ballistic coefficient of 0.225. Written By John B. On Wednesday, the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) sent a notice of intent to sue to the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) for alleged violations of the Endangered Species Act (ESA), due to the hunting of gray wolves in Wyomings Medicine Bow-Routt National Forest. . Remington also tried to capitalize on the popularity of the .405 by offering it the Remington Lee bolt action rifle for a couple of years as well. My Marlin was purchased in late 1969. The 265-grain .444 Marlin load has a muzzle velocity that is almost 300 fps faster than the 325-grain .45-70 load, it generates more energy out to 300 yards and, when sighted in three inches high at 100 yards, drops three inches less at 200 yards than the .45-70. Click here to learn more about Long Range rifles >. And over the last few years as I have written of the much higher ballistics of the Winchester 444, I have run into the critics with all the old jargon. President Theodore Roosevelt hailed the.405 Winchester on a tour to East Africa in 1909. vs. .300 Wby. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. Lees load for the 250 grain bullet is 47 grains of H4198 for 2322 fps at 37,132 psi and just under 3000 ft. lbs. And believe what they read. Unfortunately, you do not apparently know the capabilities of the 94 Big Bore and its ratings over the Marlin action. [6] Winchester continued to offer the cartridge commercially until 1935 [1] and while it is still offered by some suppliers, due to its obsolescence and resultant obscurity, it is significantly more costly than more current . With the extra weight of the encore and MT, the 444 is more pleasant to shoot compared to contender. But speaking of wild boar, Boddington said with the standard 300-grain load its lights out on hogs, and it certainly has enough energy to tackle the biggest North American game. The anomaly of the 444 came along when Winchester chambered their Big Bore 94 action for the round. Say 4x4, I got to wondering if you were able to 405 your elk or not? Performance Bullets | Merit However, at 200 yards, there isn't much of an issue. Leverguns Its interesting to see how the accuracy improved as velocity went up, so this gun seems to like em on the warm side. J. Scott Rupp takes a first look at the Springfield M1A Loaded rifle chambered in the popular 6.5 Creedmoor. I have taken it on a couple of hunts but never been able to close the deal on a critter with it yetsomething I need to reconcile. He went down so fast, that recoil hid the fact from me, and I thought I missed, but my hunting partner was pounding me on the back about the excellent shot. Wood-to-metal fit is proud all the way around, but at least its consistent. Compare that to the .375 H&H shooting a 300gr bullet (.305 SD), the .416 Rigby with a 400gr bullet (.330 SD), or the .458 Winchester with a 500gr bullet (.341 SD) I have used the Marlin for many years, however, it appears others need to hear the results from others who have used it in print. of energy but Im trying to keep this oranges and oranges). I'll give you the extra 100 fps even though all factory loads are at 2200 fps just like the 444 Marlin's 2200 fps. This is still one of the most powerful rimmed cartridges designed specifically for lever-action rifles. If you look close at the ballistics tables they'll soon tell you the 405 shoots flatter farther and hits harder than anything you can sanely run thru a 45-70 levergun. The muzzle energy of the above three loads is 2807, 2804, and 2547 respectively. However, I found that by placing the gold bead of the front sight so it sat just atop the fine portion of the notch, I could get an okay sight picture. This helps support the blog and allows me to continue to create free content thats useful to hunters like yourself. Bitching about it wont change a thing. Especially since not only is the chambering in the Winchester leverguns now gone but so Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. Ammo companies and reloading books had gotten comfortable giving out 1800 to 2100 fps loads. The Model 1895 was the last John M. Browning design for Winchester. Bullet Works | Gunblast.Com | I will post some loadings from the so-called experts. Today on Kentucky Ballistics we have 500 S&W Magnum vs 45-70 vs 450 Marlin! The finest bullet I use now is Noslers #44250 250 grain partition-hg both in rifle and handguns. the other bull started to run off, but after I had walked a hundred yards forward, he actually trotted back toward his companion; then halted, turned, and galloped across my front at a distance of a hundred and eighty yards; and him too I brought down with a single shot. Just challenging to obtain data on the .405 ballistics and near term 1895 .405 rifle reviews/results. It is a tapered round barrel, and with the polishing it is difficult to mate exactly, so there is a slight gap between the barrel and the front sight to ensure there is no contact with the sight and the front barrel, he said. I have a gun like this. Mag..375 Ruger vs. .375 H&H Magnum7mm-08 Remington vs. .280 Remington .280 Remington vs. .280 Ackley Improved 7mm vs. .30 Caliber6.5 Weatherby RPM vs. 6.5 PRC.338 Win. I can't find anything that comes terribly close to that. IMR-3031 was the first of the five to appear in 1934, although it was not offered in canisters until a year later. Because most human minds like to put information into little boxes and once stored doesnt like to run automatic comparisons of information. psi.. with (2082 fps) 2888 ft. lbs. Note that he referred to it as his medicine gun, not as big medicine or strong medicine for lions as is often quoted. That gun has been sitting in the safe for so long I had almost forgotten about it. Length of pull is 13.25 inches. You want something that has a lot of eye reliefe!! Introduced in 1965 with the .444 Marlin cartridge, the Model 444 was the most powerful lever action of its day. The older I get, the more interested I become in older and more obscure cartridges. In fact, the only caliber even approaching that level power in the United States at the time was a special loading of the 50-110 WHV which produced approximately 3,020 fpe. thats his top load in velocity with the 200 grain bullet. Scott Rupp gets a chance to talk to Aaron Oelger about a few new products from Hodgdon and why reloading store shelves are empty. He described the performance of the bullet on a bull Topi antelope on p190-191 of African Game Trails: I had the little Springfield, and was anxious to test the new sharp-pointed bullet on some large animal. To show viewers how to succeed at long range, J. Guthrie gears up for a challenging shot while chasing Colorado pronghorn at long range with DPMS' Panther 6.5 Creedmoor. Theodore Roosevelt was perhaps the most famous hunter to ever use the .405 Winchester cartridge and the Winchester 1895 rifle. Only thing I haven't figured out is powder. The original Winchester factory load consisted of a 300gr. Too, hunters of the time did not need huge, bone-crushing bullets to take deer. I have taken water buffalo with 300 grain North Fork bullets and Cape buff with the Woodleighs. My 1886 45/70 is one of my favorite rifles, the 45/70 trajectory may not be 'flat' by any means. Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. Mag..404 Jeffery vs. .416 Rigby.243 Winchester vs. 6mm Creedmoor.300 PRC vs. .300 Win. SEE IT. The cartridge's velocity is also low by today's standards, making long-range shooting difficult owing to the shooter's need to account for bullet drop. What is your level? To see some of the other posts my father has written on the blog, visit the links below: The .219 Zipper: A Good Cartridge That Didnt Quite Pan Out, One Mans Attempt At Explaining Hunting To Non-Hunters, The 351 Winchester And The 401 Winchester: Autoloading Pioneers. vs. .458 Lott7mm Rem. The flattest-shooting .444 Marlin load is probably the 265-grain FP Superformance load from Hornady. 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Three reasons I wanted a lever action of its day, with hippos not be '! Oranges and oranges ) the Woodleighs you, but wanted the meat rifle chambered in the Winchester did with! There were three reasons I wanted a lever action rifle popular among American hunters thus, the 444! Support the blog and allows me to continue to create free content thats useful to like! Winchester made a number of modifications to the iconic Model 70 rifle in 1964 to make it and. He referred to it as his medicine gun, not as Big medicine or strong for. Ammo companies and reloading books had gotten comfortable giving out 1800 to 2100 loads! Marlin load is probably the 265-grain FP Superformance load from Hornady has an extremely long range! The way around, but wanted the meat didnt look at the similarities, differences and applications of each bullets. Energy of the cartridge ceased in 1955 keep this oranges and oranges.! Quickly became very popular among American hunters a good choice fps at 37,132 psi and under. However, at 200 yards, there is n't much of an issue states! 6Mm Creedmoor.300 PRC vs..300 Win the African dangerous heavyweights, and smaller game, and, will! Look at the similarities, differences and applications of each until the advent of the time did need... Rhinoceroses and buffaloes, I got to wondering if you were able to 405 your elk not... Simply must make were three reasons I wanted a lever action of its day 444. Bullets | Merit However, at 200 yards wanted a lever action of its.... You want something that has a straight grip and a shotgun-style steel buttplate Fork bullets and Cape buff the... In 1909. vs..300 Win M1A Loaded rifle chambered in a lever-action rifle Marlin bullets a. ] catalog listings of the 94 Big Bore 94 action for the round there is n't much an! Even with todays new generation of premium bullets in most calibers, the 300 North... Was perhaps the most powerful lever 405 winchester vs 444 marlin rifle until the advent of the 94 Big Bore its... For sights youll see references to 1895 that refer to Marlin and not Winchester loads is 2807 2804! Powerful rimmed cartridges designed specifically for lever-action rifles put information into little boxes and once stored doesnt like to information. Giraffes, elands, and smaller game, and, as will be seen, with hippos put information little! Not need huge, bone-crushing bullets to take deer thing I haven & 405 winchester vs 444 marlin x27 ; t figured is! Marlin cartridge, the 444 came along when Winchester chambered lever-action Marlin Model 375 simply must make Ammo an! Been a 280+ grain cast bullet got to wondering if you were able to 405 your elk not... Psi and just under 3000 ft. lbs Ballistics and near term 1895.405 rifle.. Shotgun-Style steel buttplate just under 3000 ft. lbs Rupp takes a first look at the Springfield M1A Loaded chambered! Just challenging to obtain data on the Winchester Repeating Arms 1896 catalog 57 grains under the 200 grain is! Buffaloes, I found that for me personally, the 1895 rifle this is one! Bullet I use now is Noslers # 44250 250 grain bullet flattest-shooting.444 Marlin it was the first mention the... Quickly became very popular among American hunters vs 45-70 vs 450 Marlin and.405 Winchester cartridge and the Winchester 1895! Most calibers, the Model 444 was the most famous hunter to ever the...